Transcript
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Welcome to Get In Her Lane.
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I'm your host, jamie, and I have a 25-year career in automotive.
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This is the show where we dive into the unique challenges and opportunities women face in the automotive industry, amplifying her perspective to drive positive change.
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Women influence 83% of car buying decisions, so it's crucial we see more women in leadership roles to shape the future of this industry.
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Let's try to get there together.
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If you're new here, check out the mini episode right before this one that explains how the show's evolved and relaunched with a renewed purpose.
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And if you haven't been to the show's website, please check it out at getinherlanecom and subscribe, so on, to our show.
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Today we're back in the motorsports world, which is always an exciting topic, especially when we see women crushing it in this truly male-dominated space.
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I'm talking with Emily Miller, who founded the Rebel Rally.
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If you haven't heard of this event, this is why you need to know about it.
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The Rebel Rally is the first women's off-road navigation rally raid in the United States.
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It's an eight-day competition that covers 2,500 kilometers of terrain across the Nevada and California desert.
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There are no cell phones or GPS at all.
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You are literally relying on a compass in your training and your stock car that you can just buy at a dealership and use for the race.
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Here's the thing when Emily was creating this race, she was told she would never pull it off.
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It's women leaders like these that we have to highlight.
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Let's jump into her story about how she broke a lot of barriers to make this event happen and become the success that it is today.
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And, of course, we have to know what kind of vehicle she chooses to race.
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Here we go, emily, welcome to the podcast we are so excited to have you on.
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Tell me about Rebel Rally and why it was important for you to build this event.
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Jamie, thanks for having me on.
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Where do I start?
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First of all, I used to race off-road, and I also own a sports marketing company, and I've been a driving coach for over two decades, and what I found is that women weren't competing.
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When I was competing, and off-road, and I was racing, there were almost no women, and I mean almost no women.
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There were races.
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I remember one Baja 1000, there were over 500 teams and only two women driving, and that might be a field of a thousand plus drivers.
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I had races where there'd be 150, 250, 300 drivers, and I'd be the only driver female driver.
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Also, though, I was a driving coach, and so we would put together programs for Michelin and BFGoodrich and their management from all their distributors were invited to attend, and it was free for them to attend, and we had several years I think there were three years where not one single woman came to training, but when I would talk to their leadership, they would say, hey, you know, we offer it to them but they don't come.
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But there are top salespeople, there are best managers and sometimes, you know, we have about 24 people per training.
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We'd run two a week, and we might get one woman in training A big group of women would be three women out of 24 in training and the women would kind of stand in the back, listen really well, but not interject.
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They take the coaching really well and then the second day, in all the exercises they would just do such a great job.
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But it was a shame that they felt so uncomfortable or kind of you know, fish out of water, you know, on that first day and I really wanted a platform where women would say yes and it would attract the women who are a little bit more afraid to say.
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They're more afraid to say no and miss out on the adventure than to say yes.
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But to me it was very important that women get seat time.
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It was very important to our mission that they were in stock manufacturer vehicles, the kind that we drive every day, not race cars, and that it would give them a real test.
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I don't know if the listeners are familiar, but the Rebel Rally is a 10-day off-road navigation rally in stock vehicles.
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There is no cell phones, no GPS, no personal support crews.
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It is you and your teammate and your third teammate, your car, for 10 days and eight days you are setting up a tent, taking down a tent, packing your car.
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You have no help and you don't call.
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You don't call home at night.
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It's a beat down and it's a hard beat down, but at the finish they've been in every type of terrain, they've been in every temperature range this last year it was 14 degrees in the morning at the start of the rally and it was 114 almost at the finish, oh my gosh.
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And so they've set their tents up five times, taken them down five times.
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You know, it's just, it's exhausting, it's a beat down, but they've had eight start lines, eight finish lines and about 100 hours of competition.
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Sometimes that'll take people 10 years to get that much seat time in competition and they get it in one rebel rally.
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And so it was very important for me to create something that really wasn't about gender, just a world-class car rally that just so happened to be for women.
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It's very interesting.
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I've had some women who are from the industry and some really great women journalists who've said, gosh, you know I normally don't do women's events and I said, well, would you have done this rally if it were just an open event?
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And one said, yeah, probably wouldn't have, and that was very telling to me.
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So so today, you know that's really that mission, which is to give people really valuable seat time that they'll say, yes, they'll get that experience.
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And then it kind of, in a way, it kind of shatters their own glass ceiling, you know, the one they've made for themselves, and the sky's the limit.
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After, after a rebel.
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Right, oh my gosh, I feel like I have so many questions just hearing, hearing that much about it Going back to your early driving days, and you were probably one of no women out there.
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What was that like for you?
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What did that feel like?
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What was that all about?
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It was challenging.
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I came from different sports backgrounds where you know there weren't always a lot of women.
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I had a really great crew of women friends who you know.
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I rode bikes with hard, I skied with hard, snowboarded hard, went on like crazy adventures, but really there weren't a lot of women, you know, in the space or even at the races.
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What was challenging is you feel under the microscope, or at least I did then.
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I think things are changing, which is what's really great.
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But the way I approached it is.
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I had an incredible mentor, rod Hall.
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He really believed in me.
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He's a famous off-road racer, a legend.
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He passed away not long ago and he really believed in me.
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So I approach things like work.
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I have a job to do.
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This is not about me, this is not about my ego.
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I didn't grow up doing this.
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I was trained, I was coached and I needed to do exactly what my race boss told me to do, or my boss, whether I was teaching driving or a demo driver or whatever I was doing.
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Treat it like work.
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So kind of let all the people, the naysayers, the criticism, kind of let that drift away, because it doesn't matter and what I found is really the best in the sport were so encouraging.
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It was the ones who weren't the best who they were the armchair critics.
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So really I would say it was hard, but hey, there are way harder things in life.
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We just have to learn to disregard them, put them to the side and focus on the support of people.
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Right and our mission and Right, exactly and honestly.
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Off-road driving is so much fun.
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Off Outroad racing is fun, the pre-running is fun, rally is fun and if you can keep focused on that, who cares what people say?
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Absolutely Well.
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It sounds like the rally sounds like a very intense adventure.
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How long does it take to train for this?
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And then how many people are kind of behind it to make it work?
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Oh boy.
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Well, I'll start with the latter, which is staff.
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I have 127 staff.
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We have only about 12 volunteers.
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They are really great paid, professional staff.
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It was part of creating a world-class rally.
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It's having a world-class team and the rally's a beatdown.
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So you can't have a volunteer who on day four, says, wow, this is harder than I thought, this is harder than doing the rally, because we're all on a rally, but we have to get the job done and so I can't have somebody saying, hey, I'm volunteering, I'm out, so we have a really great team, big team, and in terms of how long it takes to train, great team, big team.
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And in terms of how long it takes to train, it really depends on how good you want to be.
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We've had people if you've never done it before, we've had people who've signed up back in the day, before it was sold out far in advance.
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We'd have people who'd sign up the month before the rally, take a quick class and then go out there and give it a shot, and some of them are still.
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Some of them are now our top competitors.
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You know five, six, seven, eight years down the road.
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We're entering our ninth year this year, but I would say that our very top competitors, the podium, they train multiple times a month.
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Like I would say they train every week.
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It has become very competitive.
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Would say they train every week.
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It has become very competitive.
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It's hard to win but it's.
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Everyone can finish.
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There's a great saying by one of the rebels that says, on the rebel, there's one winner but there are many wins, and that is very true.
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And we host training classes and there are groups that are approved as trainers who know the trick curriculum to teach across the country.
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That's incredible.
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That sounds like there's so much behind that.
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So how, when you're getting prepared, how do you feel yourself and your car ahead of the rally?
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Ah, how do I feel myself?
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Well, it's, I'm not young anymore and so, um, I think I am.
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But you know, I really focus on sleep, I focus on really good nutrition and I train.
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In fact, just before the podcast, I've started a really heavy lifting program.
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I'm only 105 pounds and 5'1" and so I felt like my body wasn't responding to training.
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So I've been on a heavy training program, heavy lifting program, and then I'm also doing sprint training.
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So I do sprint intervals of 100 meters and 200 meters while I'm on my run.
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So I just finished sprint training this morning.
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And then, when I'm exposed to a lot of dehydration in the desert and in extreme climates, I'm out on the trail a lot, I set the course, I do a lot of scouting and I also get IVs.
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I'm one of those people that now, when I'm feeling super dehydrated, I'll go get like an immune IV.
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So that's how.
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I feel myself and I always, every day, I drink a big Yeti bottle full of electrolytes and vitamins and I always make sure I drink one of those while I'm out there.
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It's very demanding in terms of the climate and the terrain.
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You know, we're out of the car a lot, we're hiking, we're checking things, we're setting up camp.
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So that's how I feel myself.
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And then how do I feel my vehicle?
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Well, I'm very fortunate to get to pre-run and some really fun cars they're all named Nice.
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Yeah, right now, actually, I'm prepping my car to get ready for training, so I'm super careful.
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I just checked all the fluids yesterday.
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We run Pennzoil.
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I just got my oil changed.
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I checked all my steering fluids, steering components, and your steering is really important in off-road driving.
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So, yeah, so I'm really pretty particular about that, particular about my tires.
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So I always do a lot of checking and prep before I go out into the back country.
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Can I ask what vehicle do you take for the rally and what's its name?
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Oh, okay.
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Well, for the Rally, I have a car I drive in particular, and it's a Lexus GX460.
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It's modified with aftermarket Total Chaos Fabrication suspension, so, for anybody who knows them, they just make the best suspension components and I run Pirelli tires, baja designs, lights, and it's an incredible car and its name is Seabiscuit, and the reason why it's named Seabiscuit is because Seabiscuit was a famous racehorse and it was kind of like a sleeper.
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People didn't really believe that Seabiscuit was going to be this champion racehorse.
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And when you see Seabiscuit you just think it's a luxury car inside.
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But when you look underneath it and you get in and you see how it drives, it's unbelievable.
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It's like driving a magic carpet.
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Oh, I love that.
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Thanks for sharing that.
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That's so fun.
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Yeah, so you mentioned Pennzoil as a sponsor.
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Tell me about that setup and how that came to be and what having a sponsor like Pennzoil means to you very careful in vetting the brands we align ourselves with.
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We have to have best in class product and the reason why is like our safety and performance is dependent on it.
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It's also dependent on it because I'm out in the back country by myself or with, like one other person, one car or two cars, and we're extremely remote.
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So the setups that I have you know, two cars and we're extremely remote.
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So the setups that I have, you know, from iridium trackers with SOS buttons on them, to Pennzoil products to, you know, to the prep of the car, every partner we align ourselves with are the best because our safety, safety number one, performance number two.
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And with Pennzoil, what's great is we have been approached by others in the same space and we got to know the Pennzoil team and the Shell team and they actually came to the rally and it's really impressive.
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They shared tents, they stayed in tents, they didn't.
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Here are top executives that didn't expect five-star accommodations, they weren't afraid of getting dirty and we really got to know them and really got to know their ethics and we really did a lot of research on them.
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I mean, we knew we loved the product and we knew the quality of the product.
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But as we got to know the people.
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They walk the walk.
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It's not just talk, they don't just write a check Without them.
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Honestly, they sponsor our mechanics crew, which is very unique to our rally.
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It's a shared mechanics crew.
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People don't have their own mechanics.
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It's a team, a pool of mechanics that work on all 65 cars and the staff cars they sponsor.
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They're the presenting sponsor of our training program, rebel U, and we train.
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Last year we trained over 1100 people in person and we're able to do some of that for free and we're also able to keep the costs down due to our partnership with Pennzoil, because it's so important that people get great education and then they are a gold partner of the rally.
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Their partnership allows us to keep.
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You know how it is in motorsports.
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It is not cheap, right Quite expensive.
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Yes, especially in the US, and the way we wanted to price it was to where it was attainable and you could raise the money, you could save the money.
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It's attainable.
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It's like going on a ski trip, a surf trip, a safari, but it's not some of the just astronomical costs of motorsports and to maintain a race car, and by doing that, pennzoil and their partnership were able to help keep those costs affordable to everyone.
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So it's not just a wealthy person's adventure and that's been really key.
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So it's really been a combination of it's the product and it's the people.
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That sounds like such a win for what your mission is and what you're trying to accomplish.
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Yeah, and it's important because our community is very connected and they really count on us to give them expert advice.
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And it's really important, too, because we have women now in 322 cities that are influencing their spheres of people.
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So we want to make sure, you know, that education, that experience and that quality of product is passed on into all these regions, because people really should have the best education and have the best products.
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How has the industry responded to a women's car rally and how are the manufacturers and companies, how do they utilize the rally now?
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Yeah, at first I can tell you this when I was starting and I announced it, everyone said, oh, you'll never pull that off in America.
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Okay, you know, that's sort of like well, now I really am going to do it yeah.
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It's the hold my beer moment, you know, and it's really funny.
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Everybody was like, well, we'll see, well, we'll sit back and watch, especially the industry, the most hardcore in the off-road industry.
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We're definitely like, yeah, well, we'll see if she pulls it off.
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And we did.
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And then it was like, oh well, you did it one year, well, we'll see if you can do it again.
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I'm like, okay, well, we will.
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Like I didn't even, we didn't even listen.
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And really at first, you know, we reached out to manufacturers and said we've built this platform for you, for your vehicles that you sell, and we will sell cars.
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But don't believe us, we're going to show you.
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Over the years and now today, the amount of manufacturer support is awesome and what we've really seen is a shift.
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It's not checking the box, like, oh, it's a women's event, let's just get involved, check the box.
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They've really taken it up and, first of all, it's a legitimate platform for proving their cars.
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It is a true proving ground.
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And now they believe it and so they put their cars in, because getting their car across the finish line in the Revelle rally really means something.
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It's not just it's not painted pink, it's not that you know women, it's a women's thing.
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All women can drive the car.
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It's.
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This car has completed this challenge.
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And so today um, I already this year, I believe we have nine major vehicle manufacturers.
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We have more that want to be in, but we are actually sold out.
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So we have already multiple manufacturers that have committed to 2025 that couldn't get in.
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This year we have three major auto manufacturers that are on the masthead, the year-round sponsorship masthead, as OEM partners of the rally, and so it's really great because and when we started they first put, I saw more manufacturers put in.
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Competitors that were journalists, had great chance to, you know, get some magazine articles, get some PR from it.
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And then, as they got into the rally and they really saw what it was all about, they really saw that it was about vehicle development and people development, which is what we knew they would eventually see.
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You know, and today that's what we really we do see that you know, honda, toyota, rivian they all put in engineers from their companies.
00:20:16.509 --> 00:20:25.304
We have additional new manufacturers that are going to put in engineers from their companies as well, and so that's really exciting to see that shift.
00:20:25.304 --> 00:20:27.454
A great example is Toyota.
00:20:27.454 --> 00:20:41.630
Last year they had in six teams, their max number of teams of engineers from multiple departments, from manufacturing, engineering, r&d, calty, to their fuel cell division.
00:20:41.630 --> 00:20:46.221
They haven't made their announcements yet, but they're back in for 2024.
00:20:46.842 --> 00:20:50.949
They have really used it as a platform for vehicle development.
00:20:50.949 --> 00:20:59.800
There's nothing better than a product engineer, a designer to have to live in that car for 10 days and push it.
00:20:59.800 --> 00:21:06.281
Not only it's like their home, it's the home, it's the office and it's also their performance tool.
00:21:06.281 --> 00:21:07.846
It's like a piece of sports equipment.
00:21:07.846 --> 00:21:15.324
And so I've had engineers say wow, I've always heard about people complaining about where that button is or where that.
00:21:15.463 --> 00:21:27.846
You know that this, this is or that is, and now I get it you know, so it's fun to see the change and the shift in the manufacturer's view of the rally.
00:21:28.107 --> 00:21:32.380
That's awesome Hearing about how it has shifted, and I agree with you.
00:21:32.380 --> 00:21:36.722
I mean checking the box cause it's a women's event, then they've missed the entire point.
00:21:36.722 --> 00:21:39.689
So it's so great to hear the progress that's been made.
00:21:39.689 --> 00:21:43.507
And yeah to your point about being in the car for 10 days.
00:21:43.507 --> 00:21:48.200
I mean what a fully immersive experience in the product and performance all at the same time.
00:21:48.401 --> 00:21:50.766
Yeah, absolutely Can you imagine.
00:21:50.766 --> 00:22:03.800
You know, they go back to work, let's say, in the Midwest, and they have just spent 100 hours of competition time plus probably another 100 hours of training and transit time.
00:22:03.800 --> 00:22:19.642
They have more experience than probably almost anyone in that manner in that car and so they come back into work and they really are now an expert on that vehicle in a real total global way.
00:22:20.282 --> 00:22:21.926
Wow, that's really cool to hear.
00:22:21.926 --> 00:22:27.047
Yeah, tell me about some of the unexpected outcomes of the rally.
00:22:28.596 --> 00:22:29.637
That's kind of the fun part.
00:22:29.637 --> 00:22:33.287
First of all, I'll start with the expected outcomes.
00:22:33.287 --> 00:22:38.105
When we started the rally, we said we did not say the rally is going to change your life.
00:22:38.105 --> 00:22:40.977
We knew it probably would, but we didn't say it.
00:22:40.977 --> 00:22:44.730
We said, hey, we'll let have the rally, let the chips fall where they may.
00:22:44.730 --> 00:22:57.076
And then very quickly people said, oh my gosh, very life-changing experience, one of the most profound experiences I've had in my life, and we're talking about people who've done a lot of big things.
00:22:57.878 --> 00:23:09.541
So the expected outcomes is that there's growth or not in the less life experienced competitors and life experiences are not dependent totally on age.
00:23:09.541 --> 00:23:15.210
I would say that some people grow, and that's we expect, that most people grow.
00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:20.928
Some people that, let's say, blame, others deflect.
00:23:20.928 --> 00:23:25.338
You know they come in, there's a lot of ego attached, et cetera.
00:23:25.338 --> 00:23:28.520
Maybe they don't grow, maybe it's just not their thing.
00:23:28.520 --> 00:23:30.359
We don't see that very much.
00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:39.906
But the expected outcomes are either they get a bad score or whatever they pout, they throw a fit score, or whatever they pout, they throw a fit like competitors in any sports competition, of course, natural.
00:23:40.255 --> 00:23:43.162
You know, like they throw their helmet, whatever, or they have growth.
00:23:43.162 --> 00:23:52.228
What is really great to see are these really top leaders who've, let's say, broken the glass ceiling.
00:23:52.228 --> 00:24:11.377
They sometimes find the most growth and I find it so interesting because they're the ones we expect to already be there, and I think some of it is that women you know in these positions are really good about self-evaluating, course correcting.
