Transcript
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Welcome to Get In Her Lane.
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I'm your host, jamie, and I have a 25-year career in automotive.
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This is the show where we dive into the unique challenges and opportunities women face in the automotive industry, amplifying her perspective to drive positive change.
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Women influence 83% of car buying decisions, so it's crucial we see more women in leadership roles to shape the future of this industry.
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Let's try to get there together.
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Today.
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I'm thrilled to introduce you to Ashley DeBoer, vice President at Mint Motors, an independent dealership that's bringing fresh thinking to automotive retail.
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Ashley's not only running the day-to-day operations, she's also pursuing a doctorate at the University of Tampa, studying how digital tools can give dealerships a competitive edge, especially when it comes to serving customers more effectively.
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I'm particularly curious about how Ashley's academic approach, her deep dive into research and data, can help us reimagine the customer experience.
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How can these insights truly transform the car buying process and, in doing so, create more opportunities for women to step into leadership roles?
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So if you ever wondered how blending theory with real world practice can move our industry forward, you're in the right place.
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Let's dive in, ashley.
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It's so great to have you on.
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Welcome.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and your role.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I got into the car industry about five years ago at the same time COVID was happening, so obviously I had a big transition to get into the market.
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I ended up originally working for a wholesaler who transitioned when all of the auctions shut down and had to transition to a full-time retail.
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So I was in the groundwork of figuring out how do we market, how do we sell, how do we get customers, how do we retain customers, how do we get inventory.
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So it was really amazing.
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I learned everything from data entry to how to do the marketing, to how to set up a service shop.
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So over the last five years I've kind of transitioned from very entry level to marketing director to now I've been VP of sales and marketing and they brought me in as a partner about a year ago now.
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So it's been really awesome to be in charge of a lot of the strategic planning of the company and also building out the company to be really successful for repeat customers, referrals, having a great brand that we're really proud of.
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So that's kind of been a little bit about me.
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I have loved the industry.
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It's kind of like once you get in, I totally understand why people don't leave and there's a lot of opportunities and even connecting with great people like you and all the other people I've met through all the networks.
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Yeah, that's been the best unexpected benefit of doing the podcast is just meeting so many great people and women in the industry and just learning about their stories.
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So how did you get into automotive in the first place?
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Because I feel like that's always the tricky thing with just trying to attract more women in the industry is just that initial.
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How do we get them in?
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Because at least when we get them in then we have a great opportunity to have them stay.
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Then they can understand that it's such a great industry and there's so much opportunity.
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But how did that happen for you?
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So my stepdad he's been my stepdad for about 10 years now, so my entire adult life and he has always owned dealerships.
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So I kind of came in.
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He was like, hey, come work with me, try to help me get some stuff set up.
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And I expected it to be a couple of them, a couple months, and it ended up being a very great career, very lucrative, very fulfilling.
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But that was something that's a really big push for me, because I've been so vocal on social media and going on these podcasts to show hey, you can have a really great career in the automotive industry as a woman and it doesn't just have to be because your dad, your brother or you're a legacy person in the automotive industry.
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And I've been really big on taking people who have no experience in the industry and showing them a pathway to success, whether that's in marketing, whether that's in sales.
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So, yeah, I had family in it, but it's been a big mission of mine to really show people that there is a way to make really good connections and to kind of just jump in and show them with the platform that I do have, whether how small or large it is, that this is a way that they could go and have a really fulfilling career, even though we're kind of the minorities in the mix.
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That's great, I mean, we're definitely aligned in that mission.
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So I'm so happy to have you on, and one of the things that also really intrigued me about you was that you're also taking an academic avenue with automotive and you are working on your doctorate.
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Is that the case?
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Is it done yet, or is it still in process?
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So I'm a year and a half in.
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It's a really big thing that I saw within the industry.
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I got my MBA at the very beginning of getting into the industry and after taking a year or two off I was like I want to go back and get my doctorate in business administration and I'm doing it at the University of Tampa and I'm about a year and a half in at this point of a three-year program and really my focus is figuring out how to apply theory and foundational practices and applying them within the industry.
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I have found that for research, there's a lot of information out there about the car industry but these higher academic thinking and studies that are done, that are super important, are really only being done by a handful of companies like Cox Automotive and some smaller ones or consulting industries.
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So I was like there is such a gap in knowledge between applying these foundational practices and theories into the dealership, from whether that's technology adoption, whether that's developing training programs, whether that's new onboarding practices.
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So I've absolutely loved being at the University of Tampa to learn these high level things and then figuring out how does that actually impact dealerships and how does that impact the bottom line.
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It isn't just a theory at the end of the day.
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I love that work, especially because I feel like there is that gap and coming from the OEM side, where sometimes the OEM knows best hey, if you just did it this way in the dealerships then you would get XYZ result right.
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And sometimes the theory and the academic process doesn't necessarily translate to the real world.
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But if we can get more I guess people thinking this way then maybe we can uncover a bunch of stuff that we're missing, that can truly make the retail process the best that it can be.
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And it's so important too because, like the research that I'm finding, because we're a high involvement purchase buying a car.
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It's one of the highest expenditures that a person can have with their disposable income.
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So I have found they do it in banking, they do it in luxury goods, but there's such a gap for they're not applying it in the automotive industry.
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I don't know if they're scared of it, but they're not getting the consumer behavior and also comparing that with what is actually happening with inside the dealership.
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Okay, so I love this.
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Let's break it down further.
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What do you think needs to be happening inside the dealership so they're doing the things the other industries are doing for the customers?
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The main thing that I was seeing that dealerships really should be focused on doing is the entire customer experience journey.
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So you take the beginning of the sale before they've even maybe interacted with the salesperson, before they've even called in.
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What are they experiencing Then during the entire purchase process of what is their interaction with all the stakeholders when they're trying to buy the vehicle, and then what's happening after they actually buy the after sale portion, and what I'm finding is that they're really missing the two end pieces that make it really important or they're very focused on.
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This is how things should be marketed and this is the brand of what we're trying to convey, but then that's missed when it's actually happening in the sale.
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So maybe they're not getting the same customer experience that they're preaching from the very beginning, because marketing is pushing out this image of a company or an image of how they should be conveying, because it sounds great, it's very appeasing to the eye, maybe it's capturing that customer to call or come in, but then that journey and that experience is not actually being delivered, so it's not meeting their expectations.
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That have been really evolving.
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If you look over the consumer behavior for car buying in the last 10 years, it's really transformed.
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Because if you would have said 10 years ago that people were buying cars without seeing them, they would have said you're kind of crazy, that's been a really big thing.
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And then the other thing is like, after you actually sell the customer, what is that salesperson doing, or what is the entire dealership doing, to stay in front of that customer and keep building those relationships, make sure that they're happy, making sure that they are having that entire customer experience carried out and they're not just okay, you made money off of them and now you throw them to the side.
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50% sometimes of our business is repeat and referral business and that just goes to show when you have, like the post-sale etiquette.
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If you follow up with them, you're staying in touch with them, you're sending them promotions, but also building that relationship with them.
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More likely they're going to when they have kids, they're going to bring them to buy their vehicle.
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When they're ready to trade in, go for the next thing, they're going to come back.
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So I think that sometimes dealerships are thinking short-sighted and they're not thinking long-term of the customer value and how to actually build those relationships out.
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Yes, on so many levels.
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So what do you think the corrective measures are?
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What needs to happen?
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So what do you think the corrective measures are what needs to happen, and is this part of your dissertation as well?
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Yeah, so my dissertation is really focusing on the customer experience strategy inside of car dealerships.
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So I'm looking at different components of digital retailing, but I'm also looking at the different models that show like buying online but picking up in store and those types of things and what other aspects of the customer experience should be adhered to.
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But we're looking at it through the lens of what the customers actually want.
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And then is what the dealerships are doing, actually meeting what the customers want?
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Because sometimes those could be completely different things.
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The dealership is like this is what we should do, this is the cost effective thing to do, but it's not what consumers really want.
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And I say that by having the dealerships developing standard operating procedures and stuff that aren't just to look good but are actually being done.
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If it's too cumbersome for the salesperson, they're not going to do it.
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If it's something that isn't actually being measured or accounted for, they probably are going to take the road of the less resistance and not do it.
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So you have to make it a win-win, because a lot of the research shows, with expectancy theory, if the salesperson feels as though what they're doing is going to benefit them in the long run and they can see the benefits of that, the more likely they are to do it.
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So I've also seen us we write these processes so they know exactly what they should be doing.
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Seen us we write these processes so they know exactly what they should be doing.
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But the top leadership within the dealership should be modeling what it should look like too.
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So I'm the biggest believer and I'm not really asking anybody to do anything I wouldn't be willing to do myself.
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So it's like making those calls.
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Making sure that they have the warm and fuzzies after they've bought a vehicle is really important, and they appreciate the thank you cards that go out.
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They appreciate checking up with them in a month to see how everything's going.
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That's really important.
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And I think when they see those people come back in six months when their neighbor now is coming in and they want to just stop in and say hi, that's super important, because we're all human at the end of the day.
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I think sometimes the car industry or the car dealership forgets that component because so much money is at play.
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Can you give an example of an effective process that's working in the dealership you're in?
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Yeah, A big thing that we started doing is we are a dealership and a service shop.
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So what we've also done is bringing, when they're selling and they're going through the purchase process.
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A big thing is customers want to make sure that they're not buying a vehicle that it has not been serviced, a vehicle that is going to break down the minute that they leave the shop.
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So what we started doing is having our sales manager introducing them to our service manager and having that relationship being built out to then if anything did arise after the sale.
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Now they kind of already feel comfortable with this is the service manager, this is his card directly.
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This is if you need anything in the future.
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It kind of makes the environment more of a team environment versus being so siloed, which I think happens.
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Or then when the customer is following up, say two months, and their engine blows I mean, we sell mechanical items.
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Everybody knows that too, that you can't always control what's going to happen.
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It really matters how you handle the customer and that they feel that they're taken care of, and I think having more people at play or more people that can answer appropriately or provide like the customer service that is needed at that time has been a really important thing, and that's kind of during the purchase process and even the after fact.
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We even have automated emails going out making sure that they're getting connected with service or for anything future service related.
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So you mentioned digital retailing.
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What does that mean to you?
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Yeah, digital retailing is a culmination of different things.
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When I first came on five years ago to the dealership, they didn't even know how to use DocuSign.
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They had never FaceTimed a customer, they had never really done a sale that was outside of, like the locality of Southwest Florida.
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So for me, digital retailing and I take a lot of the information that I learned through Cox Automotive, the digital buying car studies that we've talked about too, and it's really anything that you are doing to connect with the customer that is not happening within the store.
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I look at it as digital retailing.
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That is not happening within the store.
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I look at it as digital retailing.
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So from the very beginning the customer calls in or they're inquiring about a vehicle, I think having an important word track to gain confidence, to show transparency, is really important because you have all these tools, for the automotive software industry is expanding like crazy to accommodate for these tools.
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You have Trade Pending, who does SnapSell, which is videos, and you have Cox Automotive delivering so many different tools to use.
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But I think it's important that the dealership understands the foundation of what's important for digital retailing, because you can have all the tools but if you're not actually doing what the customer wants again, you won't be able to sell them and they'll probably buy local to them.
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So I only bring that up because when they call in having a word track and having the confidence to say we ship all over the country we are 4.8 on Google with over 1000 reviews we must be doing something right, starting with those types of things and then offering more information than they may need that maybe they didn't know was accessible to them, whether that's the window stickers, whether that's sending them walk around personalized videos, which I talk to a lot because it's super important, because they feel as though they're seeing it and you're not trying to hide any of the imperfections, especially when you work in the use space.
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That's been really important.
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And then having optimized digital contracting, whether that's through dealer center, using DocuSign, is stuff we've done.
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But then you have to have safeguards in place to ensure that all the information that you're getting is protected and being secure.
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And then making sure that the entire process you are also staying in touch with them in a way to then set up delivery and make sure that any of their questions are adhered to, because you're playing their eyes and ears also, so taking on that responsibility for salespeople to understand you could now service the entire nation of people.
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If you're excellent at doing digital retailing, you no longer are just with the people who are willing to drive to you and so inspiring the salespeople to see what type of an opportunity it is, because I've seen some salespeople thrive in doing digital retailing and other ones who have really shied away from it, and you can see the difference and pay for them.
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It sounds so easy, but doing it and implementing it and adopting it is a whole other thing.
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What do you think the barriers are?
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Obviously, if it was easy then everybody would be doing it and everybody would have made a lot more advancements in how they're progressing and the customer experience and the whole retail automotive experience.
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What do you think dealerships need to do that maybe are a little bit behind on this, to kind of push themselves forward?
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Yeah, a big thing with that.
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It's so easy to talk about and, especially from a high pedestal, to say this is what you should be doing, this is how this needs to be done.
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But actually, in the groundwork of what actually needs to be done is there's this technology adoption model theory that I use all the time in a lot of my research, and it really talks about the ease of use that has to be there.
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When you look at some of these technologies, like the CRMs, or you look at SnapSell, they've made it to where you just have to click a couple of buttons or the training is much easier.
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What I have seen with adopting any of the technology is using the trainers to be able to come in and actually train and show them how easy it is to adopt it.
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Because I'm working with people who have been in the industry for 40 years.
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Getting them to adopt new technology is tough.
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It's very, very tough, to say the least.
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So you do the ease of use that you're looking for and the people who specialize in it to be able to train and maybe carve out time to ingrain it also in sales training.
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But a big thing that I've learned is once you start showing them that you can increase numbers and you start showing them of like, hey, this is how you do it, and you have people who are willing to try it and do it, because at first they could be very resistant.
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But I think having leadership that's excited and that are have an energy of like, willingness to try new things.
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So so it kind of comes down to a company culture too.
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I've always worked on the independent side.
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I know it's different within franchises, but I know how much it impacts from team leads and from people who sales managers.
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If they're not seeing it modeled in front of them, they're kind of like why would I have to do this?
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Or why would I start using this new technology?
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So the biggest thing has been I've seen when I'm excited and I get people like to see how easy it is for me to do and maybe they shadow me a little bit, then they're willing to do it.
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Now I left today and they were doing a four car deal when I was leaving and they were doing walk around videos and they were feeling way more connected with customers than they ever did before and that person wasn't even stepping in the showroom and so I think it's been a long process to get there, but we can't undermine how important the culture is and the people that you hire and the people that you train.
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And then if you carve out time for training, which is sales training is the largest expenditure for training across industries, so it's very important.
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But if you incorporate this stuff into it, we see benefits all the time, because if you don't evolve, you're going to be left behind if you're not changing and evolving to meet the needs.
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Because now we see the rise of AI with different things, customer service looks different now.
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So the digital retailing that we think of, we think it's the interaction between the salesperson and the customer, but there's also digital retailing for people who want immediate support.
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Nowadays they want to have immediate access to things, so you need to also have a website, have an environment where you can provide that to them.
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What has your experience been as a female in the industry?
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It has been very interesting because, working in my field I work, a lot of our customers are men as well.
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A lot of local businesses buy from us and then we ship all over the country.
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So a lot of times people will think I'm either a secretary which nothing against that but I've been with the company for so long and doing that where they thought I was the owner's executive assistant instead of driving strategy.
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So it's funny to look at it from the realm of the customers coming in and interacting with me.
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But with my salespeople and how long I've been with the company, I'm really somebody that has the mindset of I'm capable of achieving anything.
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If I set my mind to, I can do it and that's modeled in my interactions.
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But now in the last while I've been really trying to pull more women into the space too, because working with women and having that network, I see a different level of creativity happening.
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I see a level of having a nice spin of the creation and the collaboration that takes place and I have found it to be better across the board because when we have diversity and different mindsets coming to the table to when we have diversity and different mindsets coming to the table to have creativity.
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There's different things that I've never looked at, that now my new partner is looking at, and for a long time it was just me kind of listening to the men in the field tell me how things should be, and then over the years I've kind of found my voice and I actually, in this space and for any person in, say, the marketing realm or sales data, speaks for itself at times.
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So being able to present stuff in a way where you are factual, you're driving data, you have numbers to back you up as well, I have found that it really gives a vote of confidence towards myself and it's allowing for space to be created for other women to come up, because some of the men that I've worked with they've never had sales women work with them, they've not had high level executives.
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They'll say, oh yeah, like we have the office managers that they've worked with Right.
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So it's interesting because it has to be a paradigm shift.
00:22:14.824 --> 00:22:18.621
But I also think that not everybody needs to go get their doctorate.
00:22:18.621 --> 00:22:33.663
I'm not advocating for that or higher education, but I also think of I'm somebody who is getting my doctorate and building out the credibility and I've also just received the 40 under 40 award from CBT News Congratulations.
00:22:33.663 --> 00:22:55.185
Yeah, I had to just drop that in there, but I think it's important to bring that up because it just filters in for the credibility component that I don't need any more credibility, but I need to be able to stand up in a room and convey my thoughts and ideas and do it in a meaningful way that actually gets conveyed to them and also brings them in to help make those decisions.
00:22:55.185 --> 00:23:12.787
Because me telling all these men what to do, typically it doesn't take off, but if I can get their feedback and it be a democratic decision, it ends up being a lot better and a lot more like they were making that decision to adopt these new technologies or to adopt these new ideas.
00:23:13.128 --> 00:23:19.537
Well, one day I think this is the goal one day you can stand up there and you don't have to have the doctorate to have the credibility.
00:23:19.537 --> 00:23:24.448
But I know you're doing all the things because you're so passionate about it too, and that's yeah, that's wonderful.
00:23:24.448 --> 00:23:30.049
What have you learned in your research that could help attract and retain more women in the automotive industry?
00:23:30.811 --> 00:23:37.730
A big thing that I have seen, because my original research that I started to work on was women in leadership.
00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:46.906
When I started to look at that and then combined it to the automotive industry, I have spent the last two years really getting more involved with networks and mentorship.
00:23:46.906 --> 00:23:57.834
So the importance of seeing people that look like you or have similar backgrounds to you is really important to order to believe that you can also do it.
00:23:57.834 --> 00:24:10.471
There's a psychology to diversity, but it's also if you see all men all the time or you walk into every car dealership and it's always men that might not think that that's a path for you to take.
00:24:10.471 --> 00:24:32.027
So what I am seeing is the importance of valuing and using the time to join these networks, to be on more speaking podcasts, to reach more people, and that's what the research shows too the importance of having mentorship in order for your career success to not just go into the automotive industry but stay through your mid-career and become an executive.
00:24:32.528 --> 00:24:36.037
So we don't want people to just come into the automotive industry and stay for a year.
00:24:36.037 --> 00:24:46.634
We want people to come in and create a career that they are then powerful and empowered women to be able to make really big change and have their voice heard across the industry.
00:24:46.634 --> 00:24:55.634
So and that was the biggest research that I found that there's a lot of mentorship and behind the scenes interactions that takes place.
00:24:55.634 --> 00:24:57.874
Where I have all men that work together.
00:24:57.874 --> 00:25:02.490
They sometimes will go golfing on the weekends or they'll go grab a beer after work.
00:25:02.490 --> 00:25:18.251
So I've started to really want to connect with other women and sometimes I'll go out with them afterwards too, but I kind of still have to find that line of professionalism and still interacting across the board.
00:25:18.653 --> 00:25:19.256
I fully agree.
00:25:19.256 --> 00:25:25.257
I mean more women in leadership roles in automotive will attract more women, but it's how do we get there faster?
00:25:25.257 --> 00:25:26.982
Because it's just on us.
00:25:26.982 --> 00:25:31.221
I mean, I think we've made a lot of progress, but it's still not where it should be.
00:25:31.221 --> 00:25:43.057
I think, as of where we're at today, I mean, people like you and there's so many other great leaders in the industry are trying to do their part and make waves, but it's just the obstacles and the barriers for preventing it.
00:25:43.057 --> 00:25:45.452
What do you see as some of the biggest ones?
00:25:46.184 --> 00:25:51.708
Some of the biggest ones too is, like I've been saying, is they don't believe that that's a path.
00:25:51.708 --> 00:25:56.105
So what I have seen is more from, like, the OEM side.
00:25:56.105 --> 00:26:05.933
I've actually seen more interactions with college campuses which they could have tabling events they have for the very first time in the last like 10 years.
00:26:05.933 --> 00:26:15.490
I've seen like Northwoods out of Michigan and they have big automotive classes that they're preaching and showing how to actually operate within a dealership.
00:26:15.490 --> 00:26:23.538
I get it, that's the academic side, but that is showing women and showing other people that they can go that path as a career path.
00:26:23.538 --> 00:26:31.886
That isn't just there's a negative persona around used car salesmen or around going to the dealership.
00:26:31.886 --> 00:26:42.471
So you could be on the OEM side or you could be on the dealership side, but there's so many paths that I think are just missed because there's negative connotation with it.
00:26:42.771 --> 00:27:14.077
So I think, changing the paradigm and if any person is on LinkedIn and see the way that some of these top level salespeople, sales managers and general managers interact on there, I think that they would be more empowered and to have a little bit more structure for how that career path goes, versus just being sales-centric, because the data shows that women are typically more nurturing and gravitate towards industries where they're taking care of people, and that's what the data shows that from primary research.
00:27:14.077 --> 00:27:22.307
But that doesn't mean that they want to be absolutely incredible in a sales role if they also got to cater to the nurturing of relationships.
00:27:22.307 --> 00:27:24.512
Because I've even changed.
00:27:24.512 --> 00:27:30.471
We don't have salespeople at our dealership anymore, we have account managers and we're focusing on relationships.
00:27:30.471 --> 00:27:41.337
So I also think that maybe changing the terminology could also make women more excited about taking on roles versus taking on, maybe, a salesperson role.
00:27:41.924 --> 00:27:42.967
Yeah, absolutely so.
00:27:42.967 --> 00:27:43.929
Account manager.
00:27:43.929 --> 00:27:49.907
And then how, what are the work hours and the pay plan like for a position like that?
00:27:50.549 --> 00:27:52.113
So the structure for that.
00:27:52.113 --> 00:27:54.605
We actually have a really interesting dealership model.
00:27:54.605 --> 00:27:57.752
Everybody eats from the same table, from the same pie.
00:27:57.752 --> 00:28:00.806
So our commission structure is a lot different.
00:28:00.806 --> 00:28:11.160
It kind of hinders scalability, but it also is a really good incentives for our team that we do have to work together really well and it holds them accountable.
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:29.186
But the pay structure for that, what I have seen, would be a commission of gross profit and then there's add-ons for being able to sell service plans or being able to sell extended service, and then we do like shelves and roof racks because we are commercial centric.
00:28:29.186 --> 00:28:30.249
And then how many hours?
00:28:30.328 --> 00:28:32.692
And the hours, which is important.
00:28:32.692 --> 00:28:38.951
We kind of call them country club hours, so 8.30 until 5.
00:28:38.951 --> 00:28:42.740
And then, yeah, and then the weekend.
00:28:42.740 --> 00:28:53.750
If people could only get in on the weekend, then you kind of have to accommodate and meet people where they're needed, Because if you're not making sales, you're not making the company money and you're not making money.
00:28:53.750 --> 00:28:55.835
So that's really important too.
00:28:55.835 --> 00:29:15.906
So it's kind of finding a company that works with the hours because work-life balance if that can be created a little bit better for women, that is a huge barrier, Because if you have children, you're raising a family, you're doing anything to take care of yourself, working from eight to nine every single day, six days a week, seven days a week.
00:29:15.906 --> 00:29:28.083
A franchise might not be the correct answer, but it's finding ways to optimize women but also still give flexibility and work-life balance for them.
00:29:28.083 --> 00:29:37.949
Maybe another way dealerships can really gain good traction and hire even better people than they are now who would be willing to work those hours.
00:29:38.269 --> 00:29:38.951
I fully agree.
00:29:38.951 --> 00:29:55.714
And if I were in that world where I was looking for employment in retail and if they didn't advertise, hey, this is 40-hour work week and it's eight to five, I would immediately rule it out because my assumption would be oh, it's nine to nine and I have to work 70 hours a week.
00:29:55.714 --> 00:29:59.946
So I think that's huge and it's so important to be sending that message out.
00:29:59.946 --> 00:30:05.959
So hopefully there's a chance to attract people, and men or women too, right?
00:30:05.959 --> 00:30:09.413
I mean, everybody wants work-life balance, not just the women.
00:30:09.413 --> 00:30:11.076
I think that's a huge part of it.
00:30:11.885 --> 00:30:16.510
Well, yeah, and the research that I have been finding too is the value and work-life balance.
00:30:16.510 --> 00:30:29.205
You actually get better employees when they feel as though they're able to take care of themselves and do good things outside of work, like that they can go golf on a Saturday if they want to, or they can go hang out with their family after work without being drained.
00:30:29.205 --> 00:30:40.453
So the research is showing that you could have a better employee by doing that, and you're seeing that kind of modeled by some four-day work weeks that some countries or some companies are starting to implement.
00:30:40.453 --> 00:30:47.919
I'm not saying that would be absolutely applicable to the automotive industry, but even scaled down to a certain degree, it could be.
00:30:48.919 --> 00:30:56.594
I found someone on LinkedIn who was advocating and I think her mission is like the four-day work week and I can't remember her name, but I've got to go relook her up.
00:30:56.594 --> 00:30:58.532
I'm like wow, that's a really cool mission.
00:30:59.449 --> 00:31:08.251
So, yeah, maybe one day, yeah, and that's kind of what I've created a little bit for myself in this role too to be able to do my doctorate too.
00:31:08.251 --> 00:31:23.805
So it's like, if you are doing higher education or you have certain things, finding companies that work with you and value you for certain areas, that you can be super successful or work remote, because I do a lot of strategy stuff and a lot of stuff with sales.
